_John BILLINGS ____________+
| (.... - 1704) m 1661
_Samuel BILLINGS ____|_Elizabeth HASTINGS _______
| (1667 - 1749) m 1699 (1643 - 1704)
_John BILLINGS ______|
| (1700 - 1754) m 1726|
| | _Ellis BARRON _____________
| | | (1655 - 1711) m 1679
| |_Mary BARRON ________|_Mary SHERMAN _____________
| (.... - 1747) m 1699 (1657 - 1710)
_John R. BILLINGS ___|
| (1731 - 1803) m 1753|
| | _Jonathan BROWNE __________
| | | (1635 - 1691) m 1662
| | _Benjamin BROWNE ____|_Mary SHATTUCK ____________
| | | (1682 - 1753) m 1703 (1645 - 1732)
| |_Elizabeth BROWNE ___|
| (1708 - 1763) m 1726|
| | _Benjamin GARFIELD ________
| | | (.... - 1717) m 1677
| |_Anna GARFIELD ______|_Elizabeth BRIDGE _________
| (1683 - 1737) m 1703 (1659 - ....)
_Benjamin BILLINGS __|
| (1753 - 1826) |
| | _Jacob FARRAR _____________
| | | (.... - 1675) m 1668
| | _Jacob FARRAR _______|_Hannah HAYWARD ___________
| | | (1669 - 1732) (1647 - ....)
| | _Henry FARRER _______|
| | | (1703 - ....) |
| | | | ___________________________
| | | | |
| | | |_____________________|___________________________
| | |
| |_Hannah FARRAR ______|
| (1737 - 1806) m 1753|
| | _Abraham HILL _____________
| | | (1643 - 1713) m 1666
| | _Abraham HILL _______|_Hannah STOWERS ___________
| | | (1670 - 1720) m 1697 (.... - 1738)
| |_Sarah HILL _________|
| |
| | _Nathaniel CARY ___________+
| | | (1645 - 1738)
| |_Martha CARY ________|___________________________
| (1678 - 1720) m 1697
|
|--Patience BILLINGS
| (1791 - 1849)
| _Daniel CLOSSON ___________
| | (1625 - 1702)
| _Josiah CLOSSON _____|___________________________
| | (1663 - 1698)
| _Nehemiah CLOSSON ___|
| | (1683 - 1759) m 1709|
| | | _Timothy WILLIAMSON _______
| | | | (1625 - 1697)
| | |_Mary WILLIAMSON ____|_Mary HOWLAND _____________
| | (1657 - 1690)
| _Nathan CLOSSON _____|
| | (1720 - 1788) m 1756|
| | | _Richard BANKS ____________
| | | | (.... - 1692)
| | | _John BANKS _________|_Elizabeth ALCOTT _________
| | | | (.... - 1725) m 1686
| | |_Elizabeth BANKS ____|
| | (1678 - 1775) m 1709|
| | | _Peter TURBAT _____________
| | | | m 1653
| | |_Elizabeth TURBAT ___|_Sarah (Sanders) SAUNDERS _
| | (1667 - ....) m 1686 (1646 - ....)
|_Abigail CLOSSON ____|
(1757 - 1840) |
| ___________________________
| |
| _____________________|___________________________
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | ___________________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|___________________________
| |
|_Sarah KEENE ________|
(1740 - 1790) m 1756|
| ___________________________
| |
| _____________________|___________________________
| |
|_____________________|
|
| ___________________________
| |
|_____________________|___________________________
_________________________________
|
____________________________________________|_________________________________
|
______________________________|
| |
| | _________________________________
| | |
| |____________________________________________|_________________________________
|
_Geoffrey DE MANDEVILLE _______|
| (1036 - 1085) |
| | _________________________________
| | |
| | ____________________________________________|_________________________________
| | |
| |______________________________|
| |
| | _________________________________
| | |
| |____________________________________________|_________________________________
|
_William DE MANDEVILLE _|
| |
| | _________________________________
| | |
| | ____________________________________________|_________________________________
| | |
| | ______________________________|
| | | |
| | | | _________________________________
| | | | |
| | | |____________________________________________|_________________________________
| | |
| |_Adeliza DE BALTS _____________|
| |
| | _________________________________
| | |
| | ____________________________________________|_________________________________
| | |
| |______________________________|
| |
| | _________________________________
| | |
| |____________________________________________|_________________________________
|
|
|--William DE MANDEVILLE
|
| _________________________________
| |
| ____________________________________________|_________________________________
| |
| _Hubert DE RIE _______________|
| | |
| | | _________________________________
| | | |
| | |____________________________________________|_________________________________
| |
| _Eudo DE RIE __________________|
| | (.... - 1120) |
| | | _________________________________
| | | |
| | | ____________________________________________|_________________________________
| | | |
| | |______________________________|
| | |
| | | _________________________________
| | | |
| | |____________________________________________|_________________________________
| |
|_Margaret DE RIE _______|
|
| _Godfrey, Count of Eu & BRIONNE _+
| | (0953 - ....)
| _Giselbert Crispin, Count of Eu et BRIONNE _|_Lasceline DE TURQUEVILLE _______
| | (1000 - 1040) (.... - 1058)
| _Richard (Lord) Fitz GILBERT _|
| | (.... - 1091) |
| | | _________________________________
| | | |
| | |____________________________________________|_________________________________
| |
|_Rohese Fitz Richard DE CLARE _|
(1067 - 1121) |
| _Osborne (II) DE BOLEBEC ________+
| |
| _Walter GIFFARD ____________________________|_________________________________
| | (.... - 1085)
|_Rohese GIFFARD ______________|
(1034 - ....) |
| _Gerard FLAITEL _________________
| | (.... - 1076)
|_Ermentrude ("Agnes") FLAITEL ______________|_________________________________
[27341] "Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans," Carl Boyer III (Santa Clarita, CA, 2001), p. 14, states he "was brother of the 1st Earl of Essex" and had Geoffrey de Mandeville (b. ca. 1130, m. Matilda de Biden).
_______________________________________
|
____________________________________________|_______________________________________
|
_Alfonso, Count of GHESNES _________|
| |
| | _______________________________________
| | |
| |____________________________________________|_______________________________________
|
_Alberic ("Sanlier") DE VERE _|
| (.... - 1112) |
| | _______________________________________
| | |
| | ____________________________________________|_______________________________________
| | |
| |____________________________________|
| |
| | _______________________________________
| | |
| |____________________________________________|_______________________________________
|
_Alberic (II) DE VERE _____|
| (.... - 1141) |
| | _______________________________________
| | |
| | ____________________________________________|_______________________________________
| | |
| | ____________________________________|
| | | |
| | | | _______________________________________
| | | | |
| | | |____________________________________________|_______________________________________
| | |
| |_Beatrix of GHENT ____________|
| |
| | _______________________________________
| | |
| | ____________________________________________|_______________________________________
| | |
| |____________________________________|
| |
| | _______________________________________
| | |
| |____________________________________________|_______________________________________
|
|
|--Alice ("Adeliza") DE VERE
|
| _Godfrey, Count of Eu & BRIONNE _______+
| | (0953 - ....)
| _Giselbert Crispin, Count of Eu et BRIONNE _|_Lasceline DE TURQUEVILLE _____________
| | (1000 - 1040) (.... - 1058)
| _Richard (Lord) Fitz GILBERT _______|
| | (.... - 1091) |
| | | _______________________________________
| | | |
| | |____________________________________________|_______________________________________
| |
| _Gilbert DE CLARE ____________|
| | |
| | | _Osborne (II) DE BOLEBEC ______________+
| | | |
| | | _Walter GIFFARD ____________________________|_______________________________________
| | | | (.... - 1085)
| | |_Rohese GIFFARD ____________________|
| | (1034 - ....) |
| | | _Gerard FLAITEL _______________________
| | | | (.... - 1076)
| | |_Ermentrude ("Agnes") FLAITEL ______________|_______________________________________
| |
|_Alice (Adeliza) DE CLARE _|
(.... - 1163) |
| _______________________________________
| |
| _Renaud I de Clermont DE CREIL _____________|_______________________________________
| | (1010 - 1088)
| _Hugh DE CREIL _____________________|
| | (1030 - 1101) m 1070 |
| | | _Baudouin II, Count of CLERMONT _______+
| | | | (.... - 1042)
| | |_Ermengardis De Clermont DE CREIL __________|_______________________________________
| | (.... - 1101)
|_Adelaide DE CLERMONT ________|
(.... - 1125) |
| _Hildouin II, Count of RAMERU _________+
| |
| _Hildouin III DE RAMERU ____________________|_Lessaline DE DAMMARTIN _______________
| | (0998 - 1063) m 1031
|_Marguerita of Montdidier DE ROUCY _|
(1048 - 1110) m 1070 |
| _Ebles I, Archbishop, Count of RHEIMS _+
| | (0976 - 1033) m 1018
|_Alix DE ROUCY _____________________________|_Béatrix of HAINAUT __________________
(1014 - 1062) m 1031 (0999 - ....)
[3318] When she married Roger Fitz Richard, Alice was widow of Roger of Essex, Lord of Raleigh. http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/p_earlyveres.shtml reports: "Views have differed as to whether Alice's husband, Robert de Essex, was the same man as the Robert de Essex who married Gunnor Bigod and was father of Henry de Essex. K. S. B. Keats-Rohan ['Domesday Descendants,' pp. 450, 451] states that Gunnor survived her husband Robert, and remarried to Haimo de St Clair, by whom she had a son Hubert, his father's successor. She therefore revives Round's suggestion, referred to in the note, that the Robert de Essex who married Aubrey's sister, Alice, must have been a son of the Robert de Essex who married Gunnor, possibly by an earlier marriage. Rosie Bevan, in April 2003, suggested that the Gunnor de Essex connected with Binham was not a daughter of Robert de Essex and Gunnor Bigod, but a daughter of their son Henry de Essex by his wife Cecily, arguing that Cecily may have been a daughter of Roger de Valognes by his wife Agnes, who calls Gunnor de Essex her neptis."
_____________________
|
_____________________|_____________________
|
_____________________|
| |
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_____________________
|
________________________|
| |
| | _____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_____________________
|
_Jonathan FICKETT ___|
| m 1763 |
| | _____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|
| | | |
| | | | _____________________
| | | | |
| | | |_____________________|_____________________
| | |
| |________________________|
| |
| | _____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_____________________
|
|
|--Joshua FICKETT
|
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_____________________
| |
| _Samuel Haley CROCKETT _|
| | (1717 - 1798) m 1738 |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | | _____________________|_____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_____________________
| |
|_Elizabeth CROCKETT _|
m 1763 |
| _Henry COBB _________+
| | (1605 - 1679) m 1649
| _Jonathan COBB ______|_Sarah HINCKLEY _____
| | (1660 - 1728) m 1682 (1629 - 1686)
| _Jonathan COBB ______|
| | (1686 - 1777) m 1711|
| | | _John CHIPMAN _______+
| | | | (1615 - 1708) m 1646
| | |_Hope CHIPMAN _______|_Hope HOWLAND _______
| | (1652 - 1728) m 1682 (1629 - 1684)
|_Sarah COBB ____________|
(1717 - 1750) m 1738 |
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
|_Elizabeth VAUGHAN __|
(1686 - 1736) m 1711|
| _____________________
| |
|_____________________|_____________________
[58627] Find A Grave memorial 111299433 states she m. Abner Tibbetts in 1811 and that she previously m. Elijah Crane (1769-1810).
________________________________________
|
_______________________|________________________________________
|
_____________________________|
| |
| | ________________________________________
| | |
| |_______________________|________________________________________
|
_Osborne Giffard, Lord of BOLBEC _|
| |
| | ________________________________________
| | |
| | _______________________|________________________________________
| | |
| |_____________________________|
| |
| | ________________________________________
| | |
| |_______________________|________________________________________
|
_Osborne (II) DE BOLEBEC _|
| |
| | _Harold VIII Blaatand, King of DENMARK _+
| | | (0911 - 0987)
| | _Herbastus of DENMARK _|_Gyrithia, Queen of SWEDEN _____________
| | |
| | _Herfastus, Sire DE CRéPON _|
| | | |
| | | | ________________________________________
| | | | |
| | | |_______________________|________________________________________
| | |
| |_Wevia DE CRéPON ________________|
| |
| | ________________________________________
| | |
| | _______________________|________________________________________
| | |
| |_____________________________|
| |
| | ________________________________________
| | |
| |_______________________|________________________________________
|
|
|--Walter GIFFARD
| (.... - 1085)
| ________________________________________
| |
| _______________________|________________________________________
| |
| _____________________________|
| | |
| | | ________________________________________
| | | |
| | |_______________________|________________________________________
| |
| __________________________________|
| | |
| | | ________________________________________
| | | |
| | | _______________________|________________________________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________________|
| | |
| | | ________________________________________
| | | |
| | |_______________________|________________________________________
| |
|__________________________|
|
| ________________________________________
| |
| _______________________|________________________________________
| |
| _____________________________|
| | |
| | | ________________________________________
| | | |
| | |_______________________|________________________________________
| |
|__________________________________|
|
| ________________________________________
| |
| _______________________|________________________________________
| |
|_____________________________|
|
| ________________________________________
| |
|_______________________|________________________________________
[3696] See "Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans," Carl Boyer III (Santa Clarita, CA, 2001), p. 104. Walter was a companion of William the Conqueror at the Battle of Hastings, 1066. For a discussion of him and his ancestry, see "Falaise Roll" (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1994), pp. 21-22. One of his sons was chancellor to King William Rufus and was made bishop of Winchester by King Henry I. He and Ermengarde also had a son William who was Bishop of Winchester. See also http://genealogy.patp.us/conq/giffard.shm and http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cousin/html/p109.htm. Cf. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famille_Giffard.
__
|
_William HARMER _____|__
| (1539 - ....)
_Thomas HARMER ______|
| (1565 - ....) m 1590|
| | __
| | |
| |_____________________|__
|
_John HARMER ________|
| (1595 - 1621) |
| | __
| | |
| | _____________________|__
| | |
| |_Sarah PAYNE ________|
| (1569 - ....) m 1590|
| | __
| | |
| |_____________________|__
|
_William HARMER _____|
| (1622 - 1667) |
| | __
| | |
| | _____________________|__
| | |
| | _____________________|
| | | |
| | | | __
| | | | |
| | | |_____________________|__
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | __
| | |
| | _____________________|__
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |_____________________|__
|
|
|--George HARMER
| (1635 - ....)
| __
| |
| _____________________|__
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |_____________________|__
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | | _____________________|__
| | | |
| | |_____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |_____________________|__
| |
|_____________________|
|
| __
| |
| _____________________|__
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |_____________________|__
| |
|_____________________|
|
| __
| |
| _____________________|__
| |
|_____________________|
|
| __
| |
|_____________________|__
[42607] This person is from the unverified Samantha Green-DeVries Tree in Ancestry.com in 2017.
[7666] Richard is son of James Arthur Marks (b. 1892 in Ashland, OH, d. March 1934 in Akron, OH) and Ruth Lillian Michalke (b. 12 July 1905, d. Feb 1928).
____________________________
|
_John Casper MOTZ ______________|____________________________
|
_George Peter MOTZ __|
| (1743 - 1806) |
| | ____________________________
| | |
| |________________________________|____________________________
|
_John MOTZ ________________|
| (1783 - 1847) |
| | ____________________________
| | |
| | ________________________________|____________________________
| | |
| |_Anna Mary HAINES ___|
| (1755 - 1816) |
| | ____________________________
| | |
| |________________________________|____________________________
|
_George A. MOTZ _____|
| (1804 - 1878) m 1833|
| | _Heinrich (Henry) MEYER ____
| | |
| | _Jacob (Sr.) MEYER _____________|____________________________
| | | (1733 - 1808)
| | _Philip MEYER _______|
| | | (1755 - 1831) m 1780|
| | | | _Peter REAM ________________
| | | | |
| | | |_Susanna REAM __________________|____________________________
| | | (.... - 1807)
| |_Barbara MEYER ____________|
| (1782 - 1847) |
| | _Andrew (Sr.) MORR _________
| | | (.... - 1771)
| | _Andrew (Jr.) MORR _____________|____________________________
| | | (1727 - 1801) m 1755
| |_Anna Margaret MORR _|
| (1759 - 1829) m 1780|
| | _Johannes Wendel ROENNIGER _+
| | | (1701 - 1810) m 1726
| |_Catherine Elizabeth RENNINGER _|_Maria Margareta HEYNLEN ___
| (1732 - 1799) m 1755 (1703 - 1748)
|
|--John Luther MOTZ
| (1847 - 1937)
| ____________________________
| |
| ________________________________|____________________________
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | ____________________________
| | | |
| | |________________________________|____________________________
| |
| _Abram FREIDT _____________|
| | (1773 - 1862) m 1785 |
| | | ____________________________
| | | |
| | | ________________________________|____________________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|
| | |
| | | ____________________________
| | | |
| | |________________________________|____________________________
| |
|_Elizabeth FREED ____|
(1813 - 1880) m 1833|
| ____________________________
| |
| ________________________________|____________________________
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | ____________________________
| | | |
| | |________________________________|____________________________
| |
|_Elizabeth Lederach GROFF _|
(1782 - 1830) m 1785 |
| ____________________________
| |
| ________________________________|____________________________
| |
|_____________________|
|
| ____________________________
| |
|________________________________|____________________________
[49273] John is listed as a child of George and Elizabeth in the unverified file LHRS-C5R in 2021 in familysearch.org.
_John SENSEMAN __________+
| (1754 - 1819) m 1778
_John SENSEMAN ______|_Juliana Justina KIMMEL _
| (1780 - 1860) (1760 - 1843)
_Joel SENSEMAN ______|
| (1812 - 1894) |
| | _________________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_________________________
|
_Michael SENSEMAN _______|
| (1846 - 1924) |
| | _________________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_________________________
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | _________________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_________________________
|
_James Oscar SENSEMAN _|
| (1873 - 1926) m 1895 |
| | _________________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_________________________
| | |
| | _Henry W. YOHN ______|
| | | (1829 - 1915) |
| | | | _________________________
| | | | |
| | | |_____________________|_________________________
| | |
| |_Anna Eliza Elmira YOHN _|
| (1850 - 1922) |
| | _________________________
| | |
| | _John SHUMAKER ______|_________________________
| | | (1803 - 1880) m 1825
| |_Susannah SHUMAKER __|
| (1826 - 1882) |
| | _Solomon BOWER __________
| | | (1780 - 1867)
| |_Elizabeth BOWER ____|_Mary Catharine BRINER __
| (1807 - 1886) m 1825 (1787 - 1871)
|
|--Mildred Irene SENSEMAN
| (1903 - ....)
| _________________________
| |
| _____________________|_________________________
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | _________________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_________________________
| |
| _________________________|
| | |
| | | _________________________
| | | |
| | | _____________________|_________________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|
| | |
| | | _________________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_________________________
| |
|_Anna E. ZIMMERMAN ____|
(1877 - 1946) m 1895 |
| _________________________
| |
| _____________________|_________________________
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | _________________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_________________________
| |
|_________________________|
|
| _________________________
| |
| _____________________|_________________________
| |
|_____________________|
|
| _________________________
| |
|_____________________|_________________________
[9218] Mildred m. June 22, 1931 Glenn M. Gardner and r. Shiremanstown, PA.
_____________________________
|
______________________________|_____________________________
|
_Christian SNOWMAN __|
| (.... - 1738) m 1712|
| | _____________________________
| | |
| |______________________________|_____________________________
|
_John SNOWMAN _____________________|
| (.... - 1801) m 1754 |
| | _____________________________
| | |
| | _Thomas COOPER _______________|_____________________________
| | | (.... - 1705) m 1683
| |_Mary COOPER ________|
| (1693 - ....) m 1712|
| | _James MINOT ________________+
| | | (1628 - 1676) m 1653
| |_Mehitable MINOT _____________|_Hannah STOUGHTON ___________
| (1668 - 1738) m 1683 (1637 - 1670)
_William SNOWMAN ____|
| (1765 - 1839) m 1790|
| | _Peter STAPLES ______________
| | | (1648 - 1719) m 1673
| | _James STAPLES _______________|_Elizabeth BEEDLE ___________
| | | (1678 - 1725) m 1701
| | _William STAPLES ____|
| | | (1705 - 1762) m 1728|
| | | | _William TETHERLY ___________+
| | | | | (.... - 1691) m 1683
| | | |_Mary TETHERLY _______________|_Mary ROBIE _________________
| | | (1684 - ....) m 1701 (.... - 1691)
| |_Sarah STAPLES ____________________|
| (1733 - ....) m 1754 |
| | _____________________________
| | |
| | _John JONES __________________|_____________________________
| | | (.... - 1758)
| |_Elizabeth JONES ____|
| m 1728 |
| | _____________________________
| | |
| |_Rebecca, wife of John JONES _|_____________________________
|
|
|--Alden B. SNOWMAN
| (.... - 1888)
| _____________________________
| |
| _Enoch HUTCHINS ______________|_____________________________
| | (.... - 1698) m 1667
| _Jonathan HUTCHINS __|
| | (1684 - 1746) m 1720|
| | | _Thomas STEVENSON ___________
| | | | (.... - 1663)
| | |_Mary B. STEVENSON ___________|_____________________________
| | (1651 - ....) m 1667
| _Charles (The "Patriot") HUTCHINS _|
| | (1742 - 1834) m 1764 |
| | | _Nicholas WEEKS _____________
| | | | (.... - 1720)
| | | _Joseph WEEKS ________________|_Judith (possibly) MENDUM ___
| | | | (1670 - 1741) m 1696
| | |_Judith WEEKS _______|
| | (1696 - 1742) m 1720|
| | | _Richard (Bryer or) BRIAR ___
| | | | m 1665
| | |_Adah Edith BRIAR ____________|_Eleanor WRIGHT _____________
| | (1666 - 1702) m 1696 (.... - 1672)
|_Judith HUTCHINGS ___|
(1772 - 1862) m 1790|
| _Jacob PERKINS ______________+
| | (1662 - 1705) m 1684
| _Jacob PERKINS _______________|_Elizabeth SPARKS ___________
| | (1685 - 1770) m 1712 (.... - 1692)
| _Joseph PERKINS _____|
| | (1717 - ....) m 1739|
| | | _John STOVER ________________+
| | | | (1653 - ....)
| | |_Lydia STOVER ________________|_Abigail (Alcock or) ALCOTT _
| | (.... - 1717) m 1712 (.... - 1730)
|_Mary PERKINS _____________________|
(1745 - 1797) m 1764 |
| _Samuel WARDWELL ____________+
| | (1643 - 1692) m 1672
| _Eliakim WARDWELL ____________|_Sarah HOOPER _______________
| | (1687 - 1753) m 1711 (1650 - 1692)
|_Abigail WARDWELL ___|
(.... - 1760) m 1739|
| _Samuel ( Sr.) BRAGDON ______+
| | (1647 - 1712)
|_Ruth BRAGDON ________________|_Mary MOULTON _______________
(1691 - 1760) m 1711 (1652 - 1725)
[22345] In 1850 Alden's mother, Judith, and 22-year-old Irene Hutchins were residing with him. Alden never married. Information is from Stephen Snowman in 2003 via email (oldgoat@pivot.net).