__
|
_Cynan Medriadog, Prince of POWYS _|__
| (.... - 0421)
_Urbien, King of BRITTANY _|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |___________________________________|__
|
_Salmon I, King of BRITTANY _|
| (.... - 0434) |
| | __
| | |
| | ___________________________________|__
| | |
| |___________________________|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |___________________________________|__
|
_Aldron, King of BRITTANY _|
| (.... - 0464) |
| | __
| | |
| | ___________________________________|__
| | |
| | ___________________________|
| | | |
| | | | __
| | | | |
| | | |___________________________________|__
| | |
| |_____________________________|
| |
| | __
| | |
| | ___________________________________|__
| | |
| |___________________________|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |___________________________________|__
|
|
|--Erich, Duke of BRITTANY
| (.... - 0478)
| __
| |
| ___________________________________|__
| |
| ___________________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |___________________________________|__
| |
| _____________________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | | ___________________________________|__
| | | |
| | |___________________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |___________________________________|__
| |
|___________________________|
|
| __
| |
| ___________________________________|__
| |
| ___________________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |___________________________________|__
| |
|_____________________________|
|
| __
| |
| ___________________________________|__
| |
|___________________________|
|
| __
| |
|___________________________________|__
[2689] http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/bios/erichby.html offers: "Erich, King of Brittany (Born c.AD 425) (Welsh: Gereint; Latin: Ericius; English: Eric) King Rivod's uncle, Erich, may have held the Breton throne for a short time in his twilight years. It has been suggested that he was the original Eric in the tale of "Eric and Enid" that the Welsh later transformed into a story concerning King Gerren (alias Gereint) of Dumnonia as "Gereint and Enid". King Erich died in 478 and was succeeded by his son, Budic II."
_Benjamin BUNKER ____
| (1710 - 1818)
_Isaac BUNKER _______|_Abigail GOODWIN ____
| (1740 - 1828) m 1760 (1715 - ....)
_Theodore BUNKER ____|
| (1783 - 1872) m 1811|
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_Esther IVES ________|_____________________
| (1740 - 1824) m 1760
_Theodore BUNKER ____|
| (1814 - 1900) m 1832|
| | _____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_____________________
| | |
| |_Rhoda JOHNSON ______|
| (1783 - 1872) m 1811|
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_____________________
|
_Lafayette Augustus BUNKER _|
| (1844 - 1916) m 1865 |
| | _____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|
| | | |
| | | | _____________________
| | | | |
| | | |_____________________|_____________________
| | |
| |_Maria URANN ________|
| (1814 - 1888) m 1832|
| | _____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_____________________
|
|
|--Eva Maria BUNKER
| (1866 - 1961)
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_____________________
| |
| _Henry SNIDER _______|
| | (1798 - 1861) m 1832|
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | | _____________________|_____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_____________________
| |
|_Sarah Maria SNIDER ________|
(1845 - 1934) m 1865 |
| _Benjamin BUNKER ____
| | (1710 - 1818)
| _Isaac BUNKER _______|_Abigail GOODWIN ____
| | (1740 - 1828) m 1760 (1715 - ....)
| _Nahum BUNKER _______|
| | (1775 - 1859) m 1806|
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |_Esther IVES ________|_____________________
| | (1740 - 1824) m 1760
|_Irene BUNKER _______|
(1807 - 1879) m 1832|
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
|_Susanna GATCOMB ____|
(1782 - 1883) m 1806|
| _____________________
| |
|_____________________|_____________________
_____________________
|
_____________________|_____________________
|
_James CLARKE _______|
| m 46960 |
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_____________________
|
_Joseph CLARK _______|
| (1739 - 1920) m 1771|
| | _John LITTLEFIELD ___+
| | | (.... - 1697) m 1645
| | _Josiah LITTLEFIELD _|_Patience WAKEFIELD _
| | | (1662 - 1713) (1630 - 1674)
| |_Sarah LITTLEFIELD __|
| (1711 - 1743) m 46960|
| | _William HILTON _____+
| | | m 1677
| |_Elizabeth HILTON ___|_Anne PARSONS _______
| (1657 - 1737)
_Ichabod CLARK ______|
| (1777 - 1829) m 1796|
| | _____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|
| | | |
| | | | _____________________
| | | | |
| | | |_____________________|_____________________
| | |
| |_Jean BORLAND _______|
| (1747 - 1824) m 1771|
| | _____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_____________________
|
|
|--Sophronia CLARK
| (1814 - 1892)
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_____________________
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | | _____________________|_____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_____________________
| |
|_Mary LANCASTER _____|
(1777 - ....) m 1796|
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_____________________
| |
|_____________________|
|
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
|_____________________|
|
| _____________________
| |
|_____________________|_____________________
_Hereward DE SEGRAVE ___________________
| (1114 - 1166)
_Gilbert DE SEGRAVE _____________________|________________________________________
| (1144 - 1201)
_Stephen DE SEGRAVE ___________|
| (1176 - 1241) |
| | ________________________________________
| | |
| |_________________________________________|________________________________________
|
_Gilbert DE SEGRAVE _|
| (.... - 1254) m 1231|
| | ________________________________________
| | |
| | _________________________________________|________________________________________
| | |
| |_______________________________|
| |
| | ________________________________________
| | |
| |_________________________________________|________________________________________
|
_Nicholas SEGRAVE ___|
| (1237 - 1295) |
| | ________________________________________
| | |
| | _________________________________________|________________________________________
| | |
| | _Robert DE CHAUCOMBE __________|
| | | (1180 - ....) |
| | | | ________________________________________
| | | | |
| | | |_________________________________________|________________________________________
| | |
| |_Amabil CHAUCOMBE ___|
| (.... - 1281) m 1231|
| | ________________________________________
| | |
| | _________________________________________|________________________________________
| | |
| |_______________________________|
| |
| | ________________________________________
| | |
| |_________________________________________|________________________________________
|
|
|--Nicholas DE SEGRAVE
| (1274 - 1321)
| _Gilbert DE LACY _______________________+
| | (.... - 1163)
| _Hugh II DE LACY ________________________|________________________________________
| | (.... - 1186)
| _Walter II DE LACY ____________|
| | (1172 - 1241) m 1200 |
| | | _Badeion DE MONMOUTH ___________________
| | | |
| | |_Rohese DE MONMOUTH _____________________|_Rohesia Fitzgilbert DE CLARE __________
| |
| _Gilbert DE LACY ____|
| | (.... - 1230) m 1225|
| | | _William DE BRAOSE _____________________+
| | | | (1112 - ....) m 1150
| | | _William DE BRAOSE ______________________|_Bertha de Pîtres of HEREFORD _________
| | | | (1144 - 1211) (1123 - ....)
| | |_Margaret DE BRAOSE ___________|
| | (.... - 1210) m 1200 |
| | | _Bernard D'ST.VALERIE __________________+
| | | | (.... - 1190)
| | |_Matilda (or Maud) d'St.Valerie DE HAIA _|________________________________________
| | (.... - 1210)
|_Maud LACY __________|
(1230 - 1304) |
| _Hugh Bigod, Earl of Norfolk & SUFFOLK _+
| | (1095 - 1176)
| _Roger Bigod, Earl of Norfolk & SUFFOLK _|_Juliana VERE __________________________
| | (1150 - 1221)
| _Hugh Bigod, Earl of PEMBROKE _|
| | (.... - 1225) m 1207 |
| | | _Hameline PLANTAGENET __________________+
| | | | (1135 - 1202) m 1164
| | |_Isabella ("Ida") PLANTAGENET ___________|_Isabel DE WARREN ______________________
| | (1136 - 1199)
|_Isabel BIGOD _______|
(.... - 1301) m 1225|
| _John MARSHALL _________________________+
| | (.... - 1165)
| _Sir William the MARSHAL ________________|_Sibyl DE SALISBURY ____________________
| | (1146 - 1219) m 1189
|_Maud (aka Matilda) MARSHALL __|
(.... - 1248) m 1207 |
| _Richard ("Strongbow") DE CLARE ________+
| | (1130 - 1176) m 1170
|_Isabel DE CLARE ________________________|_Eva MacMurrough, Countess of IRELAND __
(1173 - 1220) m 1189 (1145 - 1188)
[31055] See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_de_Segrave,_Lord_Segrave.
_Stephen (Sr.) GREENLEAF _+
| (1628 - 1690) m 1651
_Stephen (Jr.) GREENLEAF _|_Elizabeth COFFIN ________
| (1652 - 1743) m 1676 (1634 - 1678)
_Stephen GREENLEAF __|
| (1690 - 1771) m 1712|
| | _Capt. William GERRISH ___
| | | (1617 - 1687) m 1645
| |_Elizabeth GERRISH _______|_Joanna LOWELL ___________
| (1654 - 1712) m 1676 (1619 - 1677)
_Ebenezar GREENLEAF _|
| (1720 - 1765) |
| | __________________________
| | |
| | __________________________|__________________________
| | |
| |_Mary MACKERES ______|
| (1690 - 1771) m 1712|
| | __________________________
| | |
| |__________________________|__________________________
|
_Ebenezar (Jr) GREENLEAF _|
| (1746 - 1791) m 1767 |
| | __________________________
| | |
| | __________________________|__________________________
| | |
| | _____________________|
| | | |
| | | | __________________________
| | | | |
| | | |__________________________|__________________________
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | __________________________
| | |
| | __________________________|__________________________
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | __________________________
| | |
| |__________________________|__________________________
|
|
|--Mary ("Polly") GREENLEAF
| (1781 - 1846)
| __________________________
| |
| __________________________|__________________________
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | __________________________
| | | |
| | |__________________________|__________________________
| |
| _Nathaniel PREBLE ___|
| | (1724 - ....) m 1747|
| | | __________________________
| | | |
| | | __________________________|__________________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|
| | |
| | | __________________________
| | | |
| | |__________________________|__________________________
| |
|_Mary PREBBLE ____________|
(1747 - 1822) m 1767 |
| _Arthur BRAGDON __________
| | (.... - 1678)
| _Samuel ( Sr.) BRAGDON ___|__________________________
| | (1647 - 1712)
| _Joseph BRAGDON _____|
| | (1694 - 1766) m 1719|
| | | _Thomas MOULTON __________+
| | | | (1608 - 1684)
| | |_Mary MOULTON ____________|__________________________
| | (1652 - 1725)
|_Sarah BRAGDON ______|
(1723 - ....) m 1747|
| __________________________
| |
| __________________________|__________________________
| |
|_Sarah STICKNEY _____|
m 1719 |
| __________________________
| |
|__________________________|__________________________
_____________________________
|
_________________________|_____________________________
|
_William Wallace HINCKLEY _|
| (1828 - ....) m 1852 |
| | _____________________________
| | |
| |_________________________|_____________________________
|
_Merill Perkins HINCKLEY _________________|
| (1853 - 1908) m 1875 |
| | _Thomas PERKINS _____________+
| | | (1783 - 1862)
| | _Daniel Merrill PERKINS _|_Clarissa NASH ______________
| | | (1808 - 1877) m 1832 (1792 - 1873)
| |_Mary Susan PERKINS _______|
| (1833 - 1912) m 1852 |
| | _John WIGHT _________________
| | | (1757 - 1837) m 1795
| |_Olive WIGHT ____________|_Olive WESCOTT ______________
| (1811 - 1889) m 1832 (1773 - 1857)
_Maxwell Ross HINCKLEY _|
| (1884 - 1962) m 1914 |
| | _Joseph Taylor LITTLEFIELD __+
| | |
| | _Joseph LITTLEFIELD _____|_Mary ("Polly") PERKINS _____
| | | (1792 - 1871) m 1817
| | _Horatio LITTLEFIELD ______|
| | | (1828 - 1876) m 1850 |
| | | | _Gershom VARNUM _____________+
| | | | | (1757 - 1827)
| | | |_Jane VARNUM ____________|_Dolly MOOR _________________
| | | (1795 - 1872) m 1817 (1759 - ....)
| |_Caroline ("Carrie") Matilda LITTLEFIELD _|
| m 1875 |
| | _William CONNER _____________+
| | | (1774 - ....) m 1802
| | _John D. CONNER _________|_Elizabeth ("Betsy") DUNBAR _
| | | (1802 - 1885) m 1824 (1781 - 1867)
| |_Margaret CONNER __________|
| (1830 - 1912) m 1850 |
| | _William WARDWELL ___________+
| | | (1780 - 1830) m 1798
| |_Pauline WARDWELL _______|_Deborah LITTLEFIELD ________
| (1806 - 1890) m 1824 (1777 - ....)
|
|--David Ross HINCKLEY
| (1922 - 1922)
| _____________________________
| |
| _________________________|_____________________________
| |
| ___________________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________________
| | | |
| | |_________________________|_____________________________
| |
| __________________________________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________________
| | | |
| | | _________________________|_____________________________
| | | |
| | |___________________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________________
| | | |
| | |_________________________|_____________________________
| |
|_Rena Augusta JOHNSON __|
(1886 - 1946) m 1914 |
| _____________________________
| |
| _________________________|_____________________________
| |
| ___________________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________________
| | | |
| | |_________________________|_____________________________
| |
|__________________________________________|
|
| _____________________________
| |
| _________________________|_____________________________
| |
|___________________________|
|
| _____________________________
| |
|_________________________|_____________________________
__
|
__|__
|
_George INKERSTALL __|
| (.... - 1644) m 1584|
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
_Richard INGERSOLL __|
| (.... - 1644) m 1611|
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| |_Alicia HANKIN ______|
| m 1584 |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
_John INGERSOLL _____|
| (.... - 1683) |
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| | _____________________|
| | | |
| | | | __
| | | | |
| | | |__|__
| | |
| |_Ann LANGLEY ________|
| (1595 - 1677) m 1611|
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
|
|--John INGERSOLL
| (1644 - ....)
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | | __|__
| | | |
| | |_____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
|_Judith FELTON ______|
|
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
|_____________________|
|
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
|_____________________|
|
| __
| |
|__|__
__
|
__|__
|
__|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
_Robert MOULTON _____|
| (.... - 1535) |
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| |__|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
_Thomas MOULTON _____|
| (1513 - 1587) m 1558|
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| | __|
| | | |
| | | | __
| | | | |
| | | |__|__
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| |__|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
|
|--William MOULTON
|
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
| __|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
| _Richard GREEN ______|
| | (1492 - 1561) |
| | | __
| | | |
| | | __|__
| | | |
| | |__|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
|_Joanna GREEN _______|
(1532 - 1589) m 1558|
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
| __|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
|_____________________|
|
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
|__|
|
| __
| |
|__|__
[16340] William was under age 21 in 1587, and may be the William Moulton, mariner, on a 1607 list of freemen at Great Yarmouth.
__
|
__|__
|
__|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
_Svidri HEYTSSON ____|
| |
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| |__|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
_Sveide The VIKING __|
| (.... - 0760) |
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| | __|
| | | |
| | | | __
| | | | |
| | | |__|__
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| |__|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
|
|--Halfdan The OLD
| (.... - 0800)
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
| __|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | | __|__
| | | |
| | |__|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
|_____________________|
|
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
| __|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
|_____________________|
|
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
|__|
|
| __
| |
|__|__
[1835] "A Guide to Irish Roots," William & Mary Durning (La Mesa, CA: Irish Family Names Society, 1995), p. II-112, gives this ancestry of Halfdan (backwards in time): Heiti, Gor, Snow ("The Old One"), Frosti, Karl, Fornjot of Finland. Also known as Halfdan "the Aged" Sveidasson. Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfdan_the_Old.
__
|
__|__
|
_John PLYMPTON ______|
| (1620 - 1677) |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
_Joseph PLYMPTON ____|
| (1653 - 1702) m 1675|
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| |_Jane DUMMIN ________|
| (1625 - 1680) |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
_Joseph PLYMPTON _____|
| (1677 - 1740) m 1699 |
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| | _____________________|
| | | |
| | | | __
| | | | |
| | | |__|__
| | |
| |_Marie MORSE ________|
| (1653 - 1717) m 1675|
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
|
|--Amy PLIMPTON
| (1715 - 1782)
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | | __|__
| | | |
| | |_____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
|_Priscilla PARTRIDGE _|
(1672 - 1738) m 1699 |
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
| _____________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
|_____________________|
|
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
|_____________________|
|
| __
| |
|__|__
[61185] Earnestine is daughter of Ernest Wayland Sheafe (1903-1962) & Dora Ethel Kent (1903-1993; m. 28 February 1923 in ME).
[39152] This person is from the unverified Mobio Family Tree in Ancestry.com in 2015. Ancestry.com offers: "Trull Name Meaning - English: nickname from Middle English trull slattern, prostitute. German: nickname for a street entertainer or a cheat, from a noun derivative of Middle High German trüllen to juggle, also to cheat. German (also Trüll): from a short form of the female personal name Gertrud (see Trude)."
__
|
__|__
|
_Nicholas WAGNER _____|
| (1663 - 1744) |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
_Hans Jacob (Sr) WAGNER _|
| (1693 - 1754) |
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| |_Catharina SCHNEIDER _|
| (1662 - 1719) |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
_Hans Jacob (Jr) WAGNER _|
| (1725 - 1802) m 1756 |
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| | ______________________|
| | | |
| | | | __
| | | | |
| | | |__|__
| | |
| |_Anna Maria JUNG ________|
| (1695 - ....) |
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| |______________________|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
|
|--Regina WAGNER
| (1756 - 1816)
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
| ______________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
| _________________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | | __|__
| | | |
| | |______________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
|_Louisa HUBER ___________|
(1736 - 1827) m 1756 |
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
| ______________________|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
|_________________________|
|
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
|______________________|
|
| __
| |
|__|__
_____________________
|
_____________________|_____________________
|
_John WASS __________|
| (.... - 1741) |
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_____________________
|
_Wilmot WASS __________|
| (1711 - ....) m 1733 |
| | _____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_____________________
| | |
| |_Ann WILMOT _________|
| (.... - 1735) |
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_____________________
|
_Wilmot (II) WASS ___|
| (1740 - ....) m 1762|
| | _____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|
| | | |
| | | | _____________________
| | | | |
| | | |_____________________|_____________________
| | |
| |_Rebecca ALLEN ________|
| (1716 - 1790) m 1733 |
| | _____________________
| | |
| | _____________________|_____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|
| |
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_____________________
|
|
|--Christopher WASS
| (1768 - 1729)
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
| _Christopher STROUT _|
| | (.... - 1714) m 1680|
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_____________________
| |
| _Christopher STROUT ___|
| | (.... - 1758) m 1739 |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | | _George PICKE _______|_____________________
| | | | (1629 - 1716)
| | |_Sarah PICKE ________|
| | m 1680 |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_____________________
| |
|_Lucy STROUT ________|
(1740 - 1780) m 1762|
| _Francis SMALL ______+
| | (1625 - 1712) m 1650
| _Daniel SMALL _______|_Elizabeth LEIGHTON _
| | (.... - 1721) m 1694
| _Isaac SMALL ________|
| | (.... - 1765) m 1722|
| | | _John SNOW __________+
| | | | (.... - 1692) m 1667
| | |_Abigail SNOW _______|_Mary SMALLEY _______
| | (1673 - ....) m 1694 (1647 - ....)
|_Mary Elizabeth SMALL _|
(1723 - ....) m 1739 |
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
|_Elizabeth BARNABY __|
(1701 - 1743) m 1722|
| _____________________
| |
|_____________________|_____________________
[39949] Mary and Christopher are from an unverified file in 2015 in http://www.pehoushek.com/RM GENEALOGY/Pehoushek which lists his ancestry and descendants.
[48746] Name seen as Elcy also.